End of Christianity...

[R13]

Again it's not the point of it being genetic, it's still discrimination. Where you are born and raised usually determine what religion you are and what you believe, it's one of the biggest factors. If you are born in a muslim area, you are going to believe in Islam and think that religion is right...if you're born here, usually you're going to think Christianity is right. Because it isn't technically "genetic", the family is the number 1 reason why most people believe the way they do...so it is a choice, but not exactly.


I do not think it "leads" to a pattern of all of this violence, like I said..about 85% of the prison population believes in Christianity, that doesn't mean it "led" to violence and there's a legit argument for plenty of violence in the Bible.

[Gotch]

So, pointing out the fact that a hugely disapportionate number of modern day slave owners are Muslim is discrimination?

Pointing out that an outrageously disapportionate percentage of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims is also discrimination?

Pointing out the systematic abuse of women in many parts of the Muslim world is discrimination?

This idea that we have to tread lightly and maintain some sort of absurd policitally correct handling of all things Islamic is preposterous. Ask the French how that has worked out for them. Ask the Dutch how wonderful that approach has worked for them.

Concerning violence in the Bible. Tell you what, point me to the violence in the New Testament. You are aware that the NT is the blueprint for christian life, not the old testament which is actually the Hebrew bible, first five books of which make up the Jewish Torah.

[Gotch]

I believe the only statement I didn't respond to was about the percentage of the prison population that "85% of the prison population believes in Christianity".

According to a study by The Federal Bureau of Prisons right at 20% had no religious affiliation of any type.

Now here is what I found interesting: 7.273% stated that they were Muslim, while an additional 2.320% stated that they belonged to the Nation of Islam, which was polled as a separate religion.

I find that as being better than 9.5%.

Now lets look at the percentage Muslims in the US population as a whole.

According to the latest statistical data 0.6% of the U.S. population is Muslim.

So, while about 1 in every 168 Americans are Muslim, nearly 1 in every 10 convicted felons in prison are.

Interesting, thanks for leading me to that info

[R13]

First of all Christianity is how much older then Islam? Christianity has come a long way, Islam has too and will continue to do so.

Secondly, outrageously disproportionate? You are referring to the Islamic extremist who are not the majority. There are around 1.5 billion muslims in the world, if they were all or even mostly the extremist you are talking about...there'd be a lot more 9/11's happening, not the case.



Now to the prison population..It's 0.2 percent of non-believers(atheists) in prison, not 20. There's is a reason the Nation of Islam was polled separately, that's because they aren't the same. They cannot be counted with actual Muslims, so it's 7.27% and not 9.5. Judeo-Christians make up 83.7% of the prison poulation, I think that 8/10(Christians) is a little worse than 0.7/10(Islam).

[Gotch]

I think you could use a better understanding of statistics and perhaps logic as well. Not intending to be mean, but some of that flies in the face of logic.

Let's start with "outrageously disproportionate". Do you mean that it's your belief that the vast majority of terrorists are not Muslim? If so you are mistaken and most any source can correct you on that.


Let me piece it out. There are more Christians in the world than Muslims, yet Muslims make up the vast majority of terrorists. That equals "outrageously disproportionate".

It does not imply that the vast majority of Muslims are terrorists, it instead CLEARLY states the verifiable fact that the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.

Next, atheist and non-christian are two completely different things. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons about 80 percent of inmates identify themselves as having Christian beliefs. That does not in any way make the other 20 percent atheists? I have no idea were that assumption could have come from?


Now, "The Nation Of *ISLAM*" members are not Muslims that's a pretty good one! The Nations theology is to main stream Islam almost exactly what the Later Day Saints theology is to the main stream Christianity. They are Muslims...period.

But just for fun I'll humor you.

So about 1 out of every 168 Americans are Muslims, but about 1 out of every 13 felons in U.S. prison are Muslims (un-affiliated with the Nation Of ISLAM). That better?

[R13]

It is my belief that most of the "modern-day" terrorists are muslim, but people take that as most muslims are modern-day terrorists. Terrorists have been around for a long time, it's whoever is pissed and willing to kill or whichever God they are killing for. Christians have killed plenty in the name of God, muslims are now and it will continue to be like that but IMO it will die down with those extremist and new extremists/terrorists will take their place with time.



"According to a study by The Federal Bureau of Prisons right at 20% had no religious affiliation of any type."

I read that wrong and thought you meant it said that 20% were atheist. My bad.



I said they weren't "actual" muslims, they aren't. They are a hate group here in America that uses Islam to support their "cause" and hate. It's like the KKK for the Islamic faith, do you count the Klan as "actual" christians? I mean are they following what Christianity really is and living the way the Bible says? Nope. Nation of Islam is not a religion or a branch of Islam IMO, it is only use to further their agenda. So you can't compare them with the Mormons, I don't care for them but they aren't like the Nation at all - because I don't recognize them as a branch, just as I don't see the Klan as a branch of the Christian faith.



I was just using the same page I thought you were. The numbers you were using about Islam, Nation etc. matched up with the same ones on that very site.

[Gotch]

I disagree with the historical accuracy of comparing modern Islamic terror acts to government sanctioned actions of violence, which make up nearly all the supposed violence in Christianities past.

There is also the factor that the NT scriptures cannot be twisted in any means to condone acts of mass violence by any sane person. Jesus himself was non-violent and taught others to be such.

On the other hand Muhammad was a warlord who killed, raped, molested, and took slaves. There can be a reasonable assumption that such acts could be condoned in a reading of Islamic history and Islamic Scripture.

Next, if we are going to eliminate Nation of ISLAM members as Muslims due to their extreme radical nature, then a fair assessment would be to eliminate KKK members (as you mention yourself) Aryan Brotherhood members and Skinhead members and other like minded types from the percentage of the prison population bunched into the "Christian" category. Want to bet as to the degree that would drop the 80% Christian number?

I deleted the part of my previous post about the source for the 0.2 percent before you posted because I found that the BOP is using that number.

Now it is my understanding that the prisoner had to proclaim themselves an atheist to be put in that category, not just say, "no religion".

[R13]

Following orders isn't an excuse and never has been, the gov wasn't God and a real God wouldn't be "ordering" mass murdering anyway.


Don't have to twist anything, Jesus also said he and the father are one and he never disagrees with God..but that's just another example of the contradictions in the Bible. Jesus was very peaceful, but God wasn't.

I wouldn't say it would drop all that much, of course some. Since a good majority of the prison population is black - and only 2 percent is Nation - plus Latinos make up a good part of that with Catholicism. So IMO it wouldn't be that much of a drop.

[Gotch]

"Following orders isn't an excuse and never has been, the gov wasn't God and a real God wouldn't be "ordering" mass murdering anyway."

I didn't say it was an excuse. The difference is that Islamic violence is rooted in the religion, the religious scriptures, and the actions of its Prophet. Whereas the violence attributed to Christians, in the past, has often times actually been politically motivated, is not supported by the modern version of the religion, was never supported by the scriptures, and most certainly not by the actions of Jesus.


"Don't have to twist anything, Jesus also said he and the father are one and he never disagrees with God..but that's just another example of the contradictions in the Bible. Jesus was very peaceful, but God wasn't."

Can you say *stretch*? That really might be your poorest retort yet. Not all Christians would even agree with the basic premise, just for starters. Muhammad was a pedophile, a murderer, a slave owner, a rapist. But Jesus said he was God so he is just as bad? May well be the saddest argument I've encountered on this subject.

"I wouldn't say it would drop all that much, of course some. Since a good majority of the prison population is black - and only 2 percent is Nation - plus Latinos make up a good part of that with Catholicism. So IMO it wouldn't be that much of a drop."

Okay, whatever. Still doesn't change the fact that the percentage of Christians among inmates is actually slightly lower than it is among the general public while the percentage of Muslims among inmates is twelve times higher than among the general population. Even if we don't consider The Nation Of *ISLAM* as Islamic

Ever heard of Will Durant? Noted historian, Pulitzer Prize Winner, Presidential Medal Of Freedom Winner.

According to his work Muslims have carried out a 1300 year genocide against Hindu's that at times has claimed as many as 100,000 victims in a single day. They have done this while the world ignored their actions for the most part.

Ever hear of the Armenian Genocide? 300,00 butchered by Muslims in a 2 year period, followed two decades later by another 600,000 in a four year period.

The fact is history is filled with such examples of Islamic violence from the religions outset and it continues throughout history without abate and it continues today. Efforts of the apologists such as yourself to excuse these actions because Christians committed terrible, though far less brutal, crimes against humanity a quarter of a millenium ago or more is simply baffling and is beyond any sort of logic.

[R13]

There are plenty of scriptures that support violence, killing, war...so it's rooted into the religion of Christianity too. "God" ordered a lot of killings, whether or not it was politically motivated or not..it was still in the name of the Christian God.


I didn't say Jesus and God were the same, I said Jesus never disagrees with God in the Bible. So you can use the old testament and say thats what we are supposed to live by today, but Jesus never condemned nothing in the old testament or what God did.


Never said Muslims haven't been violent, just saying Christians have done the same for longer. I'm not Islamic so it doesn't hurt my feelings much to say the muslims have certainly been violent and killed. Never excused anything, if I did you have done the same with Christianity. Both religions are bad for you IMO.



My whole point was that just because you believe in Christianity, it doesn't make you a better person or have better morals. I think the whole thing is ridiculous, but as i've said, I understand why people cling to it. IMO when we stop leaning on Christianity, we'll be a lot better off.